Maybe these thoughts are more kind of a study in how people reason, and what they assume they know. I will share something that most people wouldn’t, though it’s becoming more common – a little less than a decade ago, I went through a deep depression that was probably there a little just because most people who like to think aren’t that happy, but drastically exacerbated (by a factor of 100 times – the experience was not pleasant) by an adverse reaction to migraine medication. And that was lasting.
What that left me with was living too many layers deep in the onion, as I’d put it. Pondering how many things we really know and how many do we assume out of convenience or just nothing more than we haven’t disproven them.
This isn’t a great place to be, but it taught me something very important (I recovered, of course, with no real harm done other than the misery). What it taught me was to explore things and always assume I could be wrong in a way that isn’t just bubbling insecurity. Rather, it’s being less assertive about things you don’t know well and waiting to see if information comes your way to give the opportunity of discussing things more accurately with people. I think we owe that to each other – your entitlement to have me tell you something that is correct is more important, by far, than my entitlement to believe something and then insist to you that it’s true when it may not be.
I don’t know if this onion thing has been defined by anyone else, but I would say standing on the outside of the onion is parallel with hearing something from someone else or just supposing it on your own, proudly and confidently asserting it without any self awareness and never choosing to look further. Even when proven wrong. The first layer of the onion is thinking about things, making a reasonable decision and then running with it. I think most people do this, but due to ego, there is resistance to changing of disproven.
As you go deeper and get too deep for daily usefulness, at least staying this many layers deep, you start to realize things like “we haven’t really proven that the reality that we perceive is actually reality, or that there aren’t 100 realities going around us or 100^100, and that our perception is changing with actual reality”. That kind of stuff is temporarily interesting, but not so great to think about if you’re trying to keep track of things that your spouse told you to take on and you forgot to write down.
My desire for outcomes in the hobby and then understanding instead of coming up with an analogue that I read, or whatever else comes from this – but somehow it goes far beyond just the burden to elevate discussion (however poorly received) that’s accurate to other people. I used to be sometimes a surface of the onion guy and other times first layer, and then willfully second. But if I was on the surface and someone was bugging me from the second layer on something else, I was ready to dismiss them as a pain or a pedant). I am still a pain sometimes, but now far more conscientious about whether what I’m saying accurate for the sake of someone else, not just me. Self awareness.
So, what does this have to do with Bridge City?
I have almost completely stopped reading the forums. The forums go to a steady state of paul sellers and rob cosman and whatever else that I just don’t care about. If the forums are a bucket full of gravel (the hand tool sides at least), those are the big rocks, and vibrated into the spaces between them are constant discussions about which tools to buy and how “nice of a guy” this or that guy is.
Enter John E. John is a somewhat unique individual. I have zero Bridge City tools, which isn’t by chance. This is an outcomes thing – I don’t get the need for them. But some people love them, and if you love them and more than you don’t love paying for them, then they’re for you. I’m not heading down the layers of the onion to try to make you have the same conclusion as I do as consensus building is quite often inertia to being accurate.
What’s happened with Bridge City? Well, they publicly stated (they being John, I guess) several years ago that they sold to Harvey Tools, and I stand to be corrected if that’s not correct. But what occurred initially was that the BC tools that we began to see being sometimes much more expensive here than in Asia were being handled here for orders in the US. I don’t remember what that meant – maybe it meant looking over, final fixing of little nits, who knows.
John said he had been working with Harvey Tools or Harvey Industries, whatever it may be and the rest of the details went out of my head after that. But I assumed that we don’t know how long ago Harvey was doing a lot of the grunt work or more for the BC tools, and I felt like for buyers of those tools, if that was the case, transparency would’ve been nice earlier. But it’s not that out of line – that kind of thing is really common, and I’d bet it’s common all the way down to a lot of the small boutique makers, as some have stated publicly that they subcontract work. Konrad Sauer, for example, was asked if he did the machining on some of his planes, and the answer was that some part of the process was done for him and then he took over. No big deal.
But what I’ve noticed on the forums is that there’s a huge tendency toward “that guy’s my guy, he does all of it, so you’d better not tell me different”. Having seen the actual Bridge City tools discussed on an international woodworking forum and noticing that in some cases, the prices were a fraction of what they are in the US, I suspected the reason for the price difference was charging what the market will bear. I also suspect the whole Harvey thing has a lot to do with it, and being the pondering type, I felt bad for Harvey, who purchased a business and probably little changes with who is actually doing most of the work, but now due to a change in perception, it may be difficult going forward to keep the same US market prices and clientele. Many of those regular purchasers are older, and just really liked the whole message.
BUT….
Seeing this come up a few times on forums lately, and seeing really harsh posts about wanting to see the Harvey operation go broke now because “now they’re being made in China, I think some folks could probably peel a layer or two off of the only both in what they’re learning and what they expect of themselves.
What do you think the likelihood is that the “now they’re Chinese tools!” wares weren’t generally Chinese tools before is true? Maybe that answer is known, but I don’t know it. I suspect it’s another instance of being the designer and purveyor vs. being the manufacturer no matter how large the business scales – that those are two different things.
And people need to chill out.
I have another admission – when Harvey took over, I also quietly thought once the aura of “these are American made tools” wears off, maybe they’ll be made in fewer variants and in greater numbers and be more accessible.
I’ve gotten a lot of steel from Voestalpine and Buderus lately. In fact, I’ve never knowingly bought steel from China, but what if Voestalpine and Buderus buy supplies from China or even contract finished steel and then they roll it and it comes out great. I don’t care. And if there were a supplier of steel from a small scale Harvey-like operation in China where there was a guy who was just a nutball like we can be about really liking to make and process good steel…..I’d probably buy the steel, and probably not assume that there are no other end users for the guys wares adjusted or relabeled in other countries.
I’d bet John E has heard some of this stuff over the phone from patrons, and if I’m right about this being a business arrangement going back reasonably far in terms of years, he’s probably had to bite his lip.
And that’s something I wouldn’t be able to do. Which is where my fault is. I’d probably inform the person on the other end of the phone that reality is different and the tools are generally the same, and most things have some contribution in them from China or Vietnam or wherever else and that I personally think that’s OK.
Because I’ll bet Harvey (if that’s his name) is probably a decent guy, and I’ll bet there has been no shortage of sweat done by him and his crew in helping to make what a lot of people like and consider to be good tools.
Cut Harvey some slack – wishing he starves doesn’t do you any good. Consider that he may have made some of the tools you already have if you have that type, and if you like them, they’re still the same tool. This isn’t the real life version of Red Dawn.
Some Things Above at Odds
If anyone reading has known me long enough, this “grandpa’s waiting to be wiser” thing of being cautious about what you know probably doesn’t match how I have the reputation for being belligerent or intolerant on things that I do know well, like the function of the double iron or heat treating steel in a forge by eye.
That’s certainly the case. Being considerate and thinking about other people doesn’t mean you need to be a pushover and roll over when some BS floats by.
In my case, it leads me to discussing certain things that I’m confident of a lot and very little of others (ever see me providing much advice on power tools? What about turning bowls? which finishes to buy or which retailer is “the nicest person”).
And I’m always open to being clued in to something I missed. Even on the things I think I know well. 20 years ago, I could’ve gone off track and lumped Harvey in with a specific date that “tools went from being made in the USA” to “now they’re made in China”.
Maybe I’ll grow to find out I knew almost nothing about the double iron or looking at steel or whatever else, but it won’t be because I was closed to learning or pushing a version of reality that I hoped for. And when I don’t live up to that, I hope to be called out and proven wrong.
Pulling back from the forums and not constantly being annoyed by who is on the right layer of the onion and not having a T chart of knowns and unknowns worked through for every discussion until there was proof for all has been nice. Nicer than I thought. But it’s sort of like going to the zoo now. Whether I’m the people at the zoo and the forums are the animals, or I’m an animal looking at the people at the zoo – that’s yet to be determined!
Of Making by Hand with Wood and Steel 